In this interview
with KEMI YESUFU, chairperson of the House Committee on Foreign Relations,
Nnenna Elendu -Ukeje speaks on what United States President-
elect, Donald Trump’s victory means to Nigeria and
how the Federal Government as well as the Nigerian parliament can reposition
the country’s foreign policy to benefit from his presidency. The lawmaker who is
in the forefront of pushing for gender equality and better opportunities for
women, also, spoke on what Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s
defeat means for gender activism in Nigeria.
She also shared her
views on Africans assessment of eight years of President Barak Obama on the continent.
Do you share the fear among Nigerians, that
our country doesn’t have much to cheer about with Donald Trump taking over the
White House, judging by his policy pronouncements on trade, immigration, climate change and
foreign policy?
Well, the election
in the United States was a threshold for some,
yet again for some the elections were existential, many observed the
election keenly because they believed the outcome would affect them considering
the central role America plays in global
affairs. Of course, the pundits, the media placed bets, but the outcome was
unexpected and largely surprising. The American presidential election has shown
that democracy is what it is, no matter how shocking the results are, that the
majority will always have their way, while
the minority have their say. And in spite of the outcomes of a democratic process, what legitimises the
process is the result and shocking as the result may be to many people, this is
democracy for you.
The American
democratic system threw up President-elect Donald Trump. Waking up from the
outcome of the election, we had knee-jerk reactions, people were gasping, they
were shocked. But over and beyond these reactions, we have to start to look at
the highlights in the areas we can have
deeper collaborations between the United
States and Nigeria. It is on record that Nigeria and the United States have a
long history of being close trading
partners, we are partners in the fight against global terrorism and insurgency
here in Nigeria. We have partnered the United States in rolling back diseases
such as malaria and HIV/AIDs. We also partnered on the Light Up Africa project.
You talk about the US-Nigeria Bi-National Commission which is a platform for
collaboration and engagement in key areas like governance, trade, healthcare,
counter-terrorism, combating human trafficking, anti-money laundering policies
and all. So, I do not believe that a Trump presidency is going to change what is institutionalised. It
was President Barak Obama that said that Africa needs strong institution, not
strong men. What it is that holds up the United States democracy is the fact
that they have very strong institutions. The (US) congress is strong on its
own, the State Department is strong. It
(America) is a country that has institutions that signed agreements with other
countries. We therefore cannot personalise the presidency of the United
States-to this end, agreements that have been entered into by America and
Nigeria are still going to be relevant today.
Having said this, I
did listen to President-elect Trump during the debates and he was very
passionate about the counter-terrorism fight. He was very particular about
fighting ISIS even in the countries from which they operate. He spoke about
stopping ISIS funding and of course with Nigeria under the vice-like gripe of
Boko-Haram, with the group mutating into factions with some of them pledging
allegiance to ISIS, with somebody in the White House who says he is going to
tackle terrorism wherever it is in the world can only be good news for Nigeria.
Yes, there are fears within Nigeria of
his stance on international trade especially with regard to America taking back
its position in the committee of nations. But when you look at China’s
incursion into Africa, I think it (Trump stand on trade) provides Nigeria an
opportunity. The reason why people think China’s has made inroads into Africa
is because China’s agreements with the continent’s leaders are done with
greater engagement with the Chinese in Africa. They have engaged African
countries in their quest to develop infrastructure, like when you remember the
building of the African Union headquarters in Addis Ababa. This wasn’t the
American model and this gives us another opportunity to re-jig trade agreements
between African countries and America in a way that it adds more fillip to
Africa’s agenda. Still talking trade, I think there is also an opportunity for
us with Nigeria thinking of diversifying to exploit the fact that with Trump
coming from that huge entrepreneurial
background, we can be looking towards creating a market that is wider for Nigerian
companies. Most importantly when you think of his (Trump’s) position on other
issues such as repealing Obama Care, and other policies that would have effects
within the United States, you begin to understand that they won’t be of any effect internationally.
Some in media and even keen watchers of global
events have tagged Trump’s victory as re-jigging of the world order. People
have even go far as saying Nostradamus’ prediction of power shifting to
different empires could also be used to explain Trump’s emergence to mean that
America’s time as super power is over and a new country will take its place. Do
you think such people are right?
I won’t go as far as
talking about Nostradamus. But I believe that when you look at what happened in
England with the Brexit votes, how Prime Minister Narendra Modi emerged in
India and even how the presidential elections played out here in Nigeria, you
will see that people are suddenly voting against establishment.
Here in Nigeria
people argued that the result in 2015 was about voting against the
establishment, than it was about voting for the candidate that won. I would say
people are probably tired of the status quo, they want to be part of re-jigging
the world order where the people in government are too far removed from the
governed. A lot of people are starting to say that the divide between the first
and third world even the divide within the first world between the rich and the
poor is too wide. The current situation has thrown up so much anger and fear,
therefore people are reacting by rebelling against establishment. I think that
our takeaway as a country, especially for us as people who form the leadership
is simply that, we must start to listen to the voices of the people at who’s
pleasure we serve. We must start to listen to the agitations of people in every
sphere. We have to engage more with people, so that when we present ourselves
to serve the people, they see us as individuals who truly understand their
plight.
Not only did Trump win the presidential
election, the Republican Party also recorded many victories, taking over
congress. How prepared is the Nigerian
parliament to handle a new look US congress at the level of inter-parliamentary
relations?
Government is
dynamic, the parliament is also dynamic and we are at the point of formulating
a new foreign policy. Of course, Nigeria is not going to change its foreign
policy because of the results from one election, but Nigeria is going to
position itself in a way that we strategically engage with other countries. Now
foreign policy is all about promoting and protecting self interest as well as
engaging other countries. We have engaged other countries over time, we have
deepened friendships. So as far as both congresses are concerned, the issues
that bind us together like global peace, trade, improved engagement between
both countries, the gender issue, treaties, Sustainable Development Goals, will
ensure that we continue to collaborate. And I can say that we in the Nigerian
parliament are well prepared to engage our American counterparts.
One issue Nigerians are worried about is
Trump’s promise to deport illegal migrants. Aside from family members sitting
on the edge over affected relatives, there is equally the fear that the
remittances from America which illegal immigrants also contribute will be
affected in a time when Nigeria is in a recession. What should we be doing
about this?
The operative word
is illegal. We are talking about illegal immigrants. Now, each administration in the US deported
illegal immigrants, even as recent as President Obama’s and every country has
the rights to make laws to govern their country. When a person is not known to law, when he is
an illegal immigrant, he isn’t part of the system. This causes certain problems
like their not paying taxes even when they are earning money in the same country. Here in Nigeria we
are also known to have deported illegal immigrants. For people who live out of
status, one day the law will catch up with them. We have renegotiated our
Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on migration in the United Kingdom, this is
something we can also speak to with regard to the United States, when we meet
at the bi-national conference. Again, as a politician I know that there are
certain things that are said during campaigns that when you get into the
reality of governance, it becomes clear
that it is difficult for you to carry
out governance with any kind of arbitrariness. I believe that US will be
stricter on migration but there will not be arbitrariness in deporting people
outside Memorandums of Understanding on
migration.
You regularly speak up for gender equality and
that women should be given more opportunities for leadership positions. Your call is similar to that of many of those
advocating for more women in positions of power. What does Hillary Clinton’s
defeat mean to you and the many gender activists in Nigeria who used America as
an example, as the bastion of democracy that has long recognised women as being
capable of leadership at any level?
The United States
has about 19 percent women in congress, this is in an indicator of the reality.
The Scandinavian countries have a much higher percentage, so the United States
which we always want to emulate as a 200 year old democracy and symbol of
democratic freedoms, has shown that the rule of the people will supersede whatever
sentiment there is.
Of course, I and millions of other women felt that
having a woman in the White House would have given much fillip to the gender
agenda. A female president would have given women in America a sense of
achievement even if it took 200 years, it would have given gender activists all
around the world much encouragement, to this extent, it (Hillary’s defeat) was
very disappointing. But I remember when Hilary Clinton first won the nomination
to run for presidency, in her speech she talked about her mother not being able
to vote and she was being nominated as presidential candidate for one of the
two major parties. I think that in this kind of set-backs as women, we need to
get up, dust ourselves and continue to fight the gender fight.
Should it be a talking point that it was a
woman who led Trump to victory, salvaging his campaign when it mattered the
most? What do you think about those who say Kellyanne Conway in a way fitted
into the belief that women are their own worst enemies?
It may not
necessarily be a talking point. But I think it could be a very good reference
point and the reason I say this is that sometimes it does take a woman to do a
man’s job. A lot of people would say, ‘oh it was a woman that sunk another
woman’, but I think that beyond this, we have to recognise that what she
(Conway) did was quite remarkable. I would rather look at what Kellyanne Conway
did from the angle, that it was a woman that led a team through a difficult and
contentious election with a result that shocked the world. It must be said that
she (Conway) must be twice as good at what she does to have pulled this off.
Her unpredicted success even at the expense of Hillary Clinton does show like
some of us have argued that it doesn’t matter
the arrangement of your chromosomes, that as women when we set our minds
to do something, it doesn’t matter how tough the assignment is, we can do great
things.
President Obama is on his way out of office.
Some have said Africa didn’t benefit
much from his presidency. Is this a fair assessment?
Perhaps the reason
why people say he didn’t do much for Africa was because we weren’t realistic
with our expectations. We were a little too optimistic and I say this because a
lot of people felt that because he is of African descent, his policy on Africa
will be a lot more robust than we saw.
But let’s not forget
that presidencies are defined by the times that they operate in. People have
compared what President George W Bush did with the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief
(PEPFAR) fund. But under Obama there was the engagement when Africa battled
with the Ebola Virus. Some have argued that President Obama didn’t have much an
influence in Africa especially with engaging African heads of governments. But
let me say that under Obama there were collaborations in dealing with Boko
Haram. People could say that President Obama’s Light Up Africa project didn’t
quite take off. But power projects take time to build and President Obama had
to deal with the Chinese presence in Africa. He had to deal with the wars, ISIS
and the middle east crisis, Iran-there so many
interests competing for policy drive. Ultimately, it is understandable
that Africans expected a lot more from an Obama presidency, but like I have said campaigning and governance
are quite different. And based on this, I want to relate this to what we have
on hand, that we could be pleasantly surprised with the outcomes from a Trump
presidency even with the expectations that rose from the rhetoric during a tough campaign.
SUNNEWSONLINE
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