You wrote an
open letter to the president in which you recommended that the country should
borrow from the International Monetary Fund (IMF); why?
I wrote that
letter to the president, not because I don’t have access, but it’s so that the
president will not forget where I stand. We were supposed to have taken that
loan 30 years ago. Going to the IMF does not mean that we must borrow. They are
going to give us a framework to come out of our problem.
IMF has grown
from $5 billion to a one trillion dollar organization. People there get their
promotion from what they have been able to do. IMF has helped to straighten out
China, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. Perhaps because they
(government) are afraid of transparency.
But IMF
framework is basically anti-social spending; and the experience of Mexico and
South Korea with IMF in the late 1990s was disastrous. Why should a country in
recession with weak infrastructural base go to IMF?
No, no, no.
It’s not disastrous to go there…
It was in the
instances we have mentioned, especially in Asia.
No. South
Korea gained out of it. Because a country in recession needs long time
financing. We don’t need to do Eurobond; we don’t need to do ADB. Why should we borrow at high interest rate
when there is cheap money in IMF? This is purely economics. Eurobond comes at 5
per cent, ADB at 5-6 per cent; this is the point.
ADB is 2-4 %
Whatever it
is, IMF is giving us at zero percent.
And the
conditionalities, especially the anti-social spending component?
This is why I
say it must be a win-win situation. IMF encourages building or new
infrastructure. If you are investing thoroughly in education, in healthcare, in
building more infrastructure, they are not against it. So it’s a win-win
situation.
But IMF loans
favour countries with the capacity to export, which we don’t have.
We can develop
it. This is what we are saying. We can develop it immediately. We have
everything in this country to be exported. This country can be one of the
largest exporters in five years, if we are ready to do the right thing.
What do you
think is stopping us from doing the right thing?
Tribe,
religion, trust among tribes. Our diversity has not helped us to be what we are
supposed to be. Our diversity is supposed to be a blessing to us rather than a
setback. The demography is very good. But people see everything from the lens
of their tribe: you see an Igbo man, you see a Yoruba man, you see a Hausa man,
an Efik man, an Urhobo man and so on.
In that same
letter you wrote Buhari, you said that the president’s current approach to
containing uncertainty in the land and alleviating poverty is “leaving people
in the dark and leaving their bank accounts in red”. What do you mean?
Well, it is
very simple. People are not making money. In a recession, government needs to
put stimulus on the table, and I am not sure Buhari’s government is thinking
about stimulus. You have to stimulate the economy, because if there is no
stimulation of the economy, the economy will die.
But N2.419
trillion has been injected into the economy, the finance minister said
recently.
Well there
should be a special package to stimulate the economy. Think of what happened in
the US with General Motors. When Obama
came in, the economy was in recession. Obama raised an economic team. It’s not
just releasing money for ongoing projects, no. If you are owing contractors
N1.3 trillion and you release money to pay some of them, that’s not what I’m
talking about. In any case, some of them will just take the money and go away.
When the
president was going all over the world and talking about corruption, I was
skeptical about it. You cannot go and call 180 million Nigerians thieves and
you expect investment to come in.
How do you
know that it was what he said that is driving away investment?
I am telling
you, investors moved their money away because nobody is safe. Who is going to be jailed next? I supported president travelling around,
moving around to look for investment, but also if I were in the president’s
position, I would say I know two percent of politicians who took all these
monies and I will recover them. That’s better language.
And the
stimulus?
The stimulus
is important. What the economy requires now is a stimulus – massive infusion of
money into the economy, the way Obama did with General Motors and Wall Street.
The president also needs to propose laws, like emergency powers, to get things
done quickly.
Emergency
powers? Why should the president be given emergency powers?
No, I’m
talking about emergency economic powers, not security powers.
If you were in
President Buhari’s shoes, what three things (you have mentioned stimulus) would
you do to get the country out of recession in the shortest time possible?
The stimulus
comes with a lot of things down the line. Our second largest economy, apart
from oil, is the informal sector – the artisans the bricklayers, the people on
the street, etc. So, what to do is to stimulate that sector so that you can
build the sector. We can build that sector from 18 per cent we are now, to 30
per cent, to 40- something per cent, so that oil will only be 40 per cent. So
we can go back to agriculture. What we are doing in the ministry might not
work, I am being honest with you. If we continue to invest in the Ministry of
Agriculture, it would not work.
Why not?
Because it is
not going to work. I believe in small government, large enterprise. They say
they are giving (money to) 2,000 or 5,000 people, how will that work? How will
they manage it? Instead, call Orji Uzor Kalu and say, ‘how much land do you
have (I have 13,000 hectares)?’ Give me N25 billion at interest rate of 1.5 per
cent, I will repay back the money and I will employ from day one 25,000
persons, each earning at least N18, 000. Then I will create an export market; I
will create a good environment; I will create money to fetch foreign exchange
to cushion whatever you are doing here. You can do this with two persons per
geopolitical zone and see the impact that it would have.
But Erisco
tomato paste factory is in trouble. He’s threatening to fire 1,500 workers
because of foreign exchange problems. Isn’t this the sort of problem you will
also have with private individuals?
But this is
why I’m telling you that government needs to make things happen. Erisco cannot
borrow money at 22 per cent interest rate, buy foreign exchange at over 450/$
and still remain in business. It won’t work.
In an
interview with the Vanguard in September 2009, you said your party at the time,
the PPA, would surprise Nigerians in 2011. In retrospect, it looks like an
unpleasant surprise because the party is extinct. What was your role?
Depending on
what you think. You know Nigeria’s politics; the politicians are still the
holders and the beholders. The politicians – people vying for election and
those voting – have not imbibed the spirit of politics. All they’re interested
in is sharing money. As long as the spirit of sharing money continues, the
country will be the worse for it.
But looking
back, this was not the kind of surprise you had in mind when you were talking
about it, when you said the country should look forward to a pleasant surprise
from the PPA in 2011?
Well, I cannot
remember what that pleasant surprise was, but there is still room for other
political parties to spring pleasant surprises in the future.
Not the PPA?
Including the
PPA, why not? It is a registered political party. It can rise again very well.
Yes.
How would that
work?
Nigerian
people will make it; I am not Nigerian people.
Back then,
too, one of the things you said was that former Governor Theodore Orji, who was
your chief of staff, would be the last man to ditch the PPA for the PDP. Did
his move surprise you?
Well, it’s
surprising to see how people can betray a cause. And this is what I have seen –
that Nigerian politicians have no discipline. It is a surprise, but also not a
surprise, because anything can happen in Nigeria.
But Orji said
you were squarely responsible for the breakdown in your relationship. Is that
right?
He cannot
blame me. Let him tell Nigerians what I have done. I’ve said things openly; let
him be bold to come openly and say what I have done against him. He is a very
big liar and the Nigerian people and our state people are finding out that he
is a very big liar.
When did you
discover that? He was your chief of staff for eight years; how did you miss the
lying trait?
To be honest
with you, a lot of people told me, including my mother. She never wanted him to
become governor of Abia State. A lot of people told me but I felt it was just
street gossip. When people from his village told me about him, that he has a
history of betrayal; that it’s a family trait going back to the colonial era, I
refused to listen. Two governors destroyed the PPA (Orji and Ikedi Ohakim) and
I am surprised that Igbos are beating about the bush. It was greed. They wanted
to go back to the mainstream – PDP – to be relevant. They thought that the
vehicle that brought them was not a strong vehicle, and everybody had to blame
me. So I don’t understand, because I have not done anything unethical that
would make them leave.
And former
Governor Ikedi Ohakim, people close to him said you placed too much demand on
him for money and that was a major reason why he left the PPA?
It is not
true. Ikedi Ohakim has never given me one naira. I made him governor and I have
never asked him for money. He comes to this office. If he were here now he
would tell you. He could not have said that I ever asked him for money, and
anybody who says he said that must have misquoted him. As a governor, I never
touched money throughout when I was a governor. Everybody who knows the system
knows that the chief of staff was in charge of anything money.
What is the
root of your problem with Mao Ohuabunwa?
I will not
discuss it; the case is in court.
There appears
to be this problem between godfathers and their godsons, Abuja politicians and
those in the states; will this problem ever go away?
I am not an
Abuja politician and I can’t talk about what I am not.
But you are
Orji’s godfather
I am not a
godfather. I was a transiting governor and somebody else needed to sit down and
do the work, and we selected our chief of staff of eight years. I don’t think we made a mistake. You know the
calibre of staff I worked with? I worked with people with very strong character
as my commissioners. I worked with the best.
Do you think
that with the extinction of the PPA, you lost a major opportunity to be the
Tinubu of the South-east?
Let me tell
you, there were more problems between Tinubu and Fashola, but it is the
discipline of the society of Yorubas. Igbos have no discipline in terms of
politics: they are very good traders; they are good in anything they do, but
they don’t understand politics. Fashola spoke to me many times and I confronted
Tinubu many times. In fact, this one Orji is saying, Fashola complained to T.A.
Orji and T.A. Orji responded to him and said he had not seen me since I left as
governor. And this man came back to tell
lies. Fashola is alive, you can ask him. There were more problems between
Fashola and Tinubu than (between) T.A. Orji and me. If Fashola were an Igbo
man, he would have left Tinubu and joined another party. But Yorubas have
political discipline. That is the difference between them and Igbos. I have no
problem with anybody. I was on my own one day when the late Yar’Adua told me
that Ikedi wanted to come to PDP and asked me what I thought. I said I didn’t
think anything, it’s his choice. I said, ‘Sir, why does he want to do this? You
already have our party’s nominee for the one ministerial slot, which you asked
me to submit. Why does Ohakim want to defect without even telling me or
discussing the matter with me?’ So I want politicians to be steadfast; not to
be telling lies. I was surprised when he (Orji) joined APGA. We had set up a
committee with the late Chukwumerije, Ekwunife, Larry Esin and T.A. Orji on how
PPA and APGA will become one party. I had discussed with the late Ikemba that
the party should be All Peoples Grand Alliance, with a logo of a hand carrying
the fowl. This is what happened. They now went behind and negotiated me out and
joined APGA. That was what happened. We set up a committee to go and negotiate
on our behalf. They went to the meeting once or twice, without reporting back
to me and/or the late Ikemba. I was in the U.S., and the next thing I heard was
that they had joined APGA. What happened to me in the last few years, if I do
not have a strong heart, it would have landed me in a hospital.
It’s unlikely
that Buhari’s government would have come to power without Bola Tinubu. Do you
think the government has been fair to him?
I am not going
to answer that question. Tinubu has not complained to me and Buhari has not
complained to me either.
But you have
read it in the newspapers
I can’t
believe in the newspapers
But you are a
publisher
Yes, and so
what! (Laughs)
You have twice
contested and failed to become a senator. Do you think you’re jinxed on this?
Let us wait
for the decision of the Court of Appeal. After the judgment, I can grant you an
interview on this – because you know I did not lose the election. You cannot
come and say election is inconclusive, and then come later to announce the
result. From 6am, we were winning them, and then you said the election was
inconclusive. By 2pm we heard on Radio Abia that the election had been
concluded. First of all, the electoral law forbids that. I am not a lawyer,
neither am I going to sit anywhere to judge it, but since this matter is in the
court of law, I will wait for the outcome, then we can then talk about it.
Recently, the
DG of Voice of Nigeria (VON), Mr. Osita Okechukwu, said protesters should
forget Biafra, that it is dead. Do you agree?
I cannot say.
The people who are asking for Biafra have the right to ask for Biafra, but I
believe in the largeness of the country. I believe that Nigeria should exist. I
believe all Igbos should be in Nigeria. But we must be in Nigeria with
security; we must be in Nigeria with fair play; we must be in Nigeria that
would give us true federalism; we must be in Nigeria that would give us
justice; we must be in Nigeria that treats everybody equally; we must be in
Nigeria that does not recognize Christian or Muslim, Buddhist. This is the kind
of Nigeria I would like to see. Biafra
is a metaphor. It would be a recurring decimal to the end of my life and to
other generations to come. Attacking them (protesters) is a wrong strategy
because they are without arms. You can only attack people that have arms. The
law is very clear: they have the right to protest; they have the right to say
they are looking for the State of Biafra as long as they don’t molest any
Nigerian. As long as they don’t cause any damage to any public property, they
have the right to say they want Biafra.
It is allowed everywhere in the world. But for me, Orji Kalu, I want a
united and stronger Nigeria.
Do you think
that the South-east got a fair deal under former President Jonathan? Former
Vice President Ekwueme said it didn’t.
I cannot also
say that, because I remember one time I was talking to President Buhari about
our roads. I jokingly said, ‘Sir, if you want to contest in 2019, I would like
to see you build Enugu-Onitsha, Enugu-PortHacourt, Arondizogu-Okigwe,
Umuahia-Cross River roads.’ I was just joking with him. He said, ‘Look, you had
people in government that could have done it (the roads) – the SGF, the
minister of the economy, the deputy Senate president, the deputy Speaker – why
didn’t they do it?’ He said he would try to put them in the budget. That was a
big eye opener for me. I have never gone to Mr. President to ask for anything
personal from him. I’ve always gone to discuss the collective problem of the
Nigerian people. Like when they were talking about Nnamdi Kanu, I know all the
discussions I had with the president.
Do you think
Kanu’s prolonged detention is justified?
I cannot say
anything about that. You know the case is in a court of law. I cannot condemn
Kanu or agree with him. The matter is before the court.
But Kanu
thinks the Igbo political elite have betrayed him and that is why he is suffering
today.
Kanu cannot
say that. This thing is not what you get on the road. If a young man comes and
sees what elders have seen and thinks the elders are keeping quiet, he should
ask the elders what is happening.
He feels
betrayed…
No, no. He
cannot say that.
But you are
part of the Igbo elite that he is looking up to; that has betrayed him.
He is like my
younger brother. I made Kanu’s father the traditional ruler of their place. I’m
very close to the family. I am very close to the father. I’m very close to the
mother. So when somebody will sit down and wouldn’t ask elders what is at the
community square, whatever the elders have seen, you will see too. I am very sure, we would negotiate his
release; I am very sure of that. President Buhari is not as hard as he looks;
he is a very soft man. You know, leadership is a burden; people can be inside
the room, people take decision for them and they don’t know. I believe there
must be extra things, from what I hear from the security agencies, that Kanu
did, and that is why they are holding him. They got him on video, how he was
counting how he would kill people and the number of people he would kill,
etcetera. I don’t know whether it’s true or false I have been able to ask and
this is the recurring decimal. The security kept telling me that he plotted to
kill people, including me, including many other Igbo men, including President
Buhari, including any other person you can think about. I don’t know whether
it’s true or false, but I still feel he holds a British passport. He could be
released to the British ambassador and (they can) let him go to Britain.
From what
happened to the PPA and what Buhari told you, it seems Igbo leaders are
responsible for their own problems.
Presidents
have told me that when Igbo leaders come to visit them, most of them ask for
things for themselves and their families. Most of our former leaders are alive;
you can ask them whether I have ever asked for anything other than what would
be for the collective good. Of course, there are Igbo leaders with conscience,
but we know ourselves.
Recently,
former Anambra State governor, Peter Obi, described the shocking waste in
governance and shared how he managed to save $174million for the state. Would
you describe him as an exception among Igbo leaders?
I was more
prudent than any other governor and the SSS (State Security Service) has a
report on my performance. If President Obasanjo could describe me as an action
governor, I want people to look back. Forget that we opposed third term. My
official car was the Coaster bus from the day I assumed office. journalists,
politicians, Gowon, Shagari, Obasanjo, everyone rode in it. After Obi said what
he said, haven’t you noticed that people from Anambra have attacked him? I was
the first governor to publish the state’s audited finance in the PUNCH, a
national newspaper. Nobody talks about that. I want reputable audit firms like
PWC, KPMG, Delloite and others to audit the federal government and all the
states from 1960, and then we would know who the thieves are.
President
Buhari’s wife, Aisha, is complaining, loudly, that most of the people who now
surround her husband are strangers. Do you think it’s a fair point?
Well, I am not
going to comment on that. I am close to the family and I will not like to be biased.
You were a
governor for eight years; do you think it is proper for the wife of an elected
official to publicly come out and throw her husband under the bus?
Well, I cannot
answer that question until I speak to her and speak to the husband.
You reportedly
played a major role to reconcile former military President Ibrahim Babangida
and President Muhammadu Buhari, but it seems that the wounds still run deep.
Tell us what is between both men?
When you
interviewed them, did they tell you the role I played?
Yes Babaginda
told us.
Well, I have
been very close to both men. At a time, I was feeling very uncomfortable. Each
time I was in Kaduna to see Buhari, IBB’s people would complain, and each time
I went to Minna to see IBB, Buhari’s people would complain. But the two men did
not complain. I felt very irritated and I went to Buhari and begged him to meet
IBB. He said they were not quarrelling.
I said but I want us to meet. He asked where, and I said in my house in Igbere.
He agreed. I met IBB and also told him and he had no objection. They came and
it was a fantastic reunion.
Were they
aware that they were coming to meet each other at your place?
I never lied
to any one of them. Those are my two bosses; I can never lie to anyone of
them. Both of them knew they were coming
to meet each other. There was no hidden agenda.
Tell us about
that night in Igbere. What was it that the two of them needed to say to each
other?
No, no. There
is nothing. I arranged and left both of them to talk for a couple of hours.
They spoke with each other, came out laughing and we took a photograph. Both of
them ate. For me, how I treat them, I treat them nicely because they are like
my big brothers.
Well, you
still have work to do. From Buhari’s response in our interview, it seems he’s
not fully recovered from the shock of what happened.
Well, that is
life. I have still not recovered from what T.A. Orji did to me, too (laughs).
If you go to IBB, he might have his own side of the story. If you go to Buhari,
he might have his own side of the story. So you don’t blame both of them. It’s
life. I will try one more time to invite both of them for another reunion when
Buhari completes his tenure.
Babangida also
said he would support an Igbo president in 2019.
Well, I don’t
know how that is going to be. I would like to see that happen, if Buhari will
not seek a second term.
Would you be
that candidate?
I don’t know.
But I am very competent to be the president of Nigeria.
Do you think
it’s time for an Igbo president?
Like
yesterday. It is supposed to have been more than that. I am very competent to
pilot the affairs of the country. I am more competent that those who have done
it since 1960.
Are you
working to take the advantage of that blank cheque Babangida offered to support
an Igbo president?
Yes, why not.
I can take the blank cheque. Why not? If Buhari also says that he would support
an Igbo president in 2019, it would be very good, because he is family to me
like IBB. I will follow Buhari until he says, ‘no I don’t want to contest’.
President
Buhari has said he will not read the National Conference report, let alone
implement its recommendations; do you think Nigeria will survive without
restructuring?
Let me be
honest with you, I said it on AIT few days back. I said there is need to look
into our 36 states, to come back to eight or ten regions instead of 36 states,
because the present structure is not viable. So I will encourage President
Buhari, even if he doesn’t want to see the report of the conference, to set up
a committee to review it, because without restructuring, the country cannot go
far. It is not what you think. Because we have passed those periods when you
can come to Abuja and share money and everybody goes back.
Your critics
say you may have governed Abia but your mother ruled the state. Do you agree?
I have just
given you one example now. These are what never-do-wells are saying. If my
mother governed Abia, T.A. Orji couldn’t have been governor. My mother opposed
Orji. My mother never wanted T.A. Orji to be governor. Ask my commissioners; my
mother was hand-in-hand with Obasanjo. Two of them never wanted Orji as
governor. At a time, Obasanjo even asked me to present my younger brother; I
refused. These people are alive. So, my mother never slept in Government House.
Ask the journalists; you know what the answer is. We have a house in Maitama where my mother
lived for many years. My mother has a house in Aba. She has a house in our own
village, Igbere. She had no reason to sleep in Government House for one day.
T.A. Orji used to come and beg me that I should accept – even if it is “one
small councillor” – for my mother, as concession to her. So when they tell me
that my mother did this, did that…. I love my mother and if anybody who does
not like his mother, he is a fool. I love my mother because I sucked her
breast. Anybody who fails to love his mother is a fool. I love my mother but if
there is a conflict between the state and my family, the state will take precedence.
You started
your first business with $35, which your mother gave you. What major lessons
have you learned along the way?
The major
lesson I have learnt is that, if I am dealing with you, my words should be my
bond. If I say this is a white paper, you should be able to find out anywhere
that it is a white paper. That is the only lesson and the only true lesson for
growth. This is why there is no leader I cannot look in the face and talk. I
had never done government contract in my life. I have been a trader. I have
never taken government’s waiver in my whole life.
You were
suspended in school (the university) for participating in a protest. Do you
have any regrets?
No. The man who suspended me is like my father.
He is my friend; he brought me up – Professor Jibril Aminu. I wasn’t expelled;
I was suspended in my fourth year. I had just three weeks to graduate from the
university. I left at my will. The only exam I didn’t take was PLS 148
(Political Science 148). I paid solidarity with my guys.
You seem to
blame former President Olusegun Obasanjo for most of your woes, especially the
SLOK Group, but he often answered that you were a mostly unethical businessman.
What is your response?
How? Is he –
Obasanjo – a businessman himself? Has he ever done any business to know what is
ethical or unethical? You said that SLOK Airline in Enugu, one plane committed
offence and you banned all the planes. When Chidiebere vehicle is travelling
from Kaduna to Lagos and has an accident or commits a traffic offence, are you
going to ban all the other hundreds of trailers owned by Chidiebere? Is that
justice? What makes me not to be an ethical businessman? I have never taken a
contract from him; I am not a contractor.
What was it
Obasanjo had against you?
It was third
term. I was the one who told President Nelson Mandela. I was the one who told
President Bush (Jnr). And those people came after him. Those people told him
that I was the one who told them.
Why didn’t
your mother come in on the issue since she had a good relationship with
Obasanjo?
She tried but
as they say, water don pass garri.(Laughs).
You have been
in a long-drawn case with the EFCC over your management of state funds. Do you
think there’s anything that the country can do to make leadership more
accountable?
Well, leaders
can be more accountable if they want. Let me finish the EFCC case before I can
talk on this. But my conscience tells me that I am not a thief. My brain,
heart, my hand, everything tells me I am not a thief. My case and some other cases look more
political. So we will know who is right or wrong.
Do you think
that people have put style over substance in the recent operation against
judges by the DSS?
I’m not going
to comment on that issue because I have many cases in court; I don’t want to
prejudice any issue. On this one, I will plead the Fifth Amendment.
Which of your
businesses do you consider the jewel in your treasure box and why?
Every business
is as important as the other. All of them are important to me.
Why do you
change the managing directors (MDs) of your newspaper, SUN, every four years?
No, no, no.
There is no one term of four years. They are there as long as they can perform.
It was the editors the policy affected. It was the decision of the board and,
sometimes, I don’t sit on the board. Every day, younger people are coming out
of universities, coming in with good ideas and more energy. It is always good
that any editor who has done well in three years you can give him another three
years.
But your MDs
(in SUN) have a fixed tenure.
No. MDs don’t
have a fixed tenure. MDs can only go when they are 60.
You are
particularly fond of your mother. Were you indulged? What was it like growing
up?
How? My mother
beat the hell out of us; that is the truth. This is why when people come to our
house, they will see how clean our house is; they will see our forthrightness.
That was part of the discipline my mother gave to us. We cleaned our beds. We
made our beds. We polished our shoes. So, these are things she taught us. We
dared not do anything wrong in the eyes of my mother. She would bring the cane
and discipline us. Now, I have never flogged any of my children but I was caned
and I can show you the scars. My mother had three girls and three boys, but the
three girls died and the boys survived. We accepted it as the will of God.
What keeps you
awake at night?
Nothing, maybe
discussing with friends. Sleeping with my wife keeps me awake at night.
What would you
say was your most prized legacy in eight years of being the governor of Abia
State?
Service to the
people. The people of Abia miss me now. Whenever I go home, they say this is
the man who used to pay leave allowance, not only salaries; he sent us for
training. I did poverty alleviation (programme), which worked. I got many
people to learn how to make soap. I enrolled people for WAEC. I encouraged people to work, to learn. For
traders who did not have the time to go
to school in the day, we organized a work-to-learn scheme for them. They
went for classes in the evening between 5pm and 7.30 pm. When they finished, we enrolled them for
WAEC. Mind you, when I was governor,
there was free education in Abia. When I say free education, I mean genuine education
through which Abia State Government, from 1999 to 2007, paid the WAEC fees for
all Abians who sat for WAEC. That’s what we used our money to do. And this is
why our state will continue to top the WAEC performance table for the next 10
years. I laid the foundation. Ask anybody in Abia State University, I expanded
the university. I gave N150 million every month to the university. It was almost free education. I was paying
N93, 000 while parents were paying N7, 000 for all students, whether they were
from Sokoto or anywhere. I was the one who brought the Emir of Lapai to come
and become the chancellor of the university. Let me tell you, when you look at
our (football) team, Enyimba, you will see the right frame of my mind; you will
see Omokaro; you will see Muhammed, Okeke, Okafor, Etim and so on. That was my
frame of mind. And this is the frame of the mind of any good leader.
What is the
future you see for today’s youths?
It’s just for
us to make this future for them, because the youth are not so strong. The youth
are not youth any longer. When I was a
student union leader, we didn’t take money from anybody. You can’t give us
N2,000, we wouldn’t take money from you. At my age, 56, I do not see people
changing to what they are supposed to be. It’s a terrible thing. We are not
giving the youth the direction they are supposed to take. We need reorientation for the youth by our
communities because now people have no values.
But the youth
also feel betrayed by the older generation.
Hmm! They
cannot feel betrayed because it is what the youth got themselves into that they
are reaping. I pity the youth. You see, when they are doing empowerment, they
give them motorcycles; when we were doing empowerment, we paid WAEC fees for
poor youths because we know once they have the school leaving certificate, it
is a meal ticket to move to the next level. This was what we did. We also built
skill acquisition centres in Abia so that people could acquire skills. All the
skill acquisition centres are now gone. There is nothing like that again. If we
are looking for welders in ships, in our shipyards, we get them from as far as
the Philippines. Can you imagine that this is happening in Nigeria?
Do you agree
that our process of leadership recruitment is bad?
The way people
are recruited as leaders is a major problem in the society. Most of our leaders
are not prepared to be leaders. They had not even made decisions before.
Leadership entails a lot.
But after
eight years in office, you had a chaotic handover to your chief of staff. Do
you think you failed in that regard?
I didn’t fail.
I did all I was supposed to do to support him to be the governor, but he
failed, because he should have done better than me. And this is why I ran away.
Since I left, I have never gone to Government House. T.A. spends most of our
money on propaganda, instead of using it for the people.
Who are your
role models?
John F.
Kennedy, Zik, Awolowo, Sardauna. These people were committed to their regions,
committed to their people. Nelson Mandela was also my role model. I also
respect Obasanjo. He is a strong leader. He has his own mind. The only problem
I have with him is that he is unforgiving. It’s the truth I am telling you. He
is fair-minded but very, very petty.
Your daughter
is getting married very soon. What is your greatest wish for her?
To have a
blessed family. She is marrying her classmate in the university, a young man
from Esan (Edo State). We wish her and her husband well.
Are you on
semi-retirement from politics?
I can’t retire
from politics. I am neither a member of the APC nor a member of the PDP. I
spend my time advising government and advising those who need my advice. And I
will come back again very strong. Watch out; I am coming back very strong.
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